Talk:Nekomura Iroha (VOCALOID2)/@comment-70.177.64.168-20180922072702/@comment-53539-20180922114502
Someone tried to correct me on that when I was talking about it elsewhere, least in regards to the "trans" bit. The trouble is the reason its not really acknowledged is that people can't separate politics and biology to talk about it long enough. I remember trying to find a label for Iroha and instead got attacked more then anything else. All I wanted was "Ryouseirui", instead I got lectures about LGBT issues. I will note, as I'm the one talking here... I've been myself discussing these matters most of my life, so I don't have the incline to shy from the subject... I started out until 2009 discussing all the controversial subjects from religion to evolution to LGBT to GM crops even... It doesn't bother me and opinions are just that. Opinions. Mine don't mean I want shake the hand of my most hated enemies if it resolves a problem and I'm the sort of person who will stand up to unfairness... I just try and avoid SJW mentality. Which is the problem discussing such subjects like this one tend to find, people can't help being SJW on others. SJW doesn't hide that we aren't addressing this issue. Even if the provider has the biology of male underneath (edit; I'm just using "male" for the sake of its easier for this explanation, thats all btw otherwise this will get too complex so please guys, let it slide this time), the voice would still not be female, its just not atypical masculine. For every provider like Iroha's there are millions of males who have not this issue at all. And once the voicebox grows, the voice is forever altered. You can cut it back down to size, but this is dangerous and I know someone who earlier this year tried to commit suicide by slitting her throat. The throat because it sees food pass through it, takes in air, etc, is one of the areas of the body prone to getting infections as its a "entrance" into the body for things liquid, gas and solid, therefore all manners of bacteria that can endure all sorts of environments often get in this way. So the throat is an area constantly under threat every time you breath, drink or eat. So if you cut the voicebox, as my friend did, you can see a lot of infections. So this is not a light hearted operation. So its common to train men to sing/speech in falsetto instead if they want to be trans. Likewise, women who become men see their voicebox grow can't undo this and thats that. But the thing is, there are distinguishable trait between male and female and they concern the genitals, the upper body, facial hair and the voice. Of those four, guess what our wiki is touching upon - the voice. So whether or not we like it, its relevant to our wiki. And the fact 3 vocals at least have touched upon it, means regardless its a issue that will be there to stay with us forever now (Iroha, Ryuto, Len). So whether the SJW among our fandom like it, the issue doesn't go away and will crop up. The problem is, which is why its not on the page, is everyone gets nippy on the subject and the is little maturity on the matter. SJW occurs if people don't like something someone says. The issue doesn't stop and doesn't go away just because people stick their fingers in their ears and scream "your wrong this is a female vocal lalala can't hear you!". :-? Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism#Humans Luckily we don't have to talk about most of this and its always going to be just focused on the voicebox. Some of the other vocal synths have managed to avoid this and its only Vocaloid and UTAU I think who voicebanks with this issue. (Edit again, keep thinking of things to say; I don't think the UTAU wiki bothers at all, but its more complex in their case. There are issues with UTAU far beyond that of gender and biology talk. If they were to start talking about this 1 issue it would bring up all the hundreds of others. There are voicebanks like just samples of dogs barking. There are avatars who have both genders and therefore voicebanks of both genders. Its therefore much more complicate and besides... O Herman tried already to reject us talking about certain language elements and UTAU was very much his wiki for a time. He could be too stubborn for the good of the UTAU wiki in 2011... As well as this wiki. Thats something coming from me who is also stubborn at times.) It also has no impact on Iroha herself... Iroha's female. And on that, the provider and voicebank have no impact on her. Thats the other issue, you can think "this is the voice of Iroha" but you still have to treat them as separate entities. And of all of V2, Iroha's one of the HQ vocals, so the voicebank is among the best of Vocaloid2, so how female-like she is matter has no impact on that either. So even if we add more stuff about the issue, it would not change these things at all and its irrelevant on the avatar or quality of the voicebank are entirely separate issues. Even this was the deepest bass-iest vocal and throwing it off as "female" then would become really silly... That would not change those two things… Though since especially in the V2 era lower pitched vocals have issues because of vocaloids handling is poor... That would be quite a feat if she was then among the best despite that with a bass vocal... This is an issue that impacts Big Al, Bruno, VY2, etc after all.